Getting Inspired By... with Will Hatton - Music Production Podcast #348

Will Hatton is a music producer and educator. He runs the popular Inspired By... YouTube Channel and has taught music for over a decade. Will releases music under the name Hush Child.

Will and I had a great time talking about a wide range of topics. We discussed his work and success with his YouTube Channel. Will shared some insights about how he carved his own path in the music industry. We spent quite a bit of time discussing philosophical principles of creativity and productivity.

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Show Notes:

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Episode Transcript:

Brian Funk (00:36.056)

Hello, welcome to the Music Production Podcast. I'm your host, Brian Funk. This is the show about all things related to making music. And today I have a special guest, somebody I'm a fan of, Will Hatton, who makes music as Hush Child, who's got the Inspired By YouTube channel. And...

Will (00:39.028)

Alright.

Brian Funk (01:05.728)

Really a great source of information, creative ideas or tutorials. Will's YouTube channel is phenomenal. The Instagram is great. I've learned a lot from him and been inspired by him as this channel is called and enjoying the music that you got to Will. Thanks for being here, man. It's great to see you and talk to you in real life or semi-real life, whatever this is.

Will (01:26.19)

Thank you so much for having me, I'm excited to jump into it. Semi-real life. Dude, that was a great intro, have you got a teleprompter? That was good.

Brian Funk (01:31.965)

Yeah.

No, no, that was, I think about it a little, but that's my least favorite part of the show, honestly. It just feels so awkward.

Will (01:42.334)

It's always, it always feels like, yeah, it's a little bit rigid, but that was great. You threw in a little inspired by pun there. I appreciate it. That's great.

Brian Funk (01:50.344)

That happened totally by accident. Oh good, I'm glad you like it because I always feel nervous about that for my guests. Like I'm gonna do some disservice to them, but I like to keep this casual, relaxed conversation style. And sometimes I think that sort of goes against what I'm trying to do. So I keep thinking maybe I should take that out and do something different, but I never know what to do. So I just always fall back on it.

Will (01:52.798)

I'm sure. That was good. I'm excited.

Will (02:17.758)

No, leave it in. Leave all the bloopers in. Poke fun. Make lots of puns. And rhyme apparently as well if you can.

Brian Funk (02:24.592)

Cool. There you go. Look at that. See? We're getting in what they call the flow, right? It's awesome to meet you, man. Seriously, I do love your stuff. Your stuff always comes up in my YouTube algorithm, and I'm always glad to see it. And it's the kind of stuff that I'm really drawn to as far as like tutorials go and just music production because it's practical. It's useful.

Will (02:28.214)

Thank you. Thank you.

Will (02:32.297)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (02:53.896)

promotional, it's not kind of whatever's happening in the moment. Kind of, we kind of talked about this a little bit earlier, but you know, it's, it's got substance. That's what I really like, man. So, and you do a great job with the videos, the way you edit them, the way you put them together, very much a fan. So it's great to have you.

Will (03:01.557)

Yeah.

Will (03:12.098)

Oh, thank you so much. We said this before, but same to you. Like everything is very inspired by you seem like a very busy person. You have a lot going on with the podcast and the channel and then all the training. And then I see your emails roll out as well. And I'm just like, this guy's busy. You put us all to shame.

Brian Funk (03:32.036)

Nah, you too, man. You've got such good stuff. That's stuff I want to talk to you about. How'd you even get into doing this all? Because you mentioned in your email, it's something I didn't know you were streaming to tons of people on a Reddit streamer, which I didn't even know existed.

Will (03:48.558)

it yeah I don't think a lot of people knew that existed I shouldn't I shouldn't undermine people there's a lot of people that I've spoken to that also didn't know it existed and

Brian Funk (03:52.068)

Yeah, so give us the background.

Brian Funk (04:04.348)

It's underground. It's cool. I...

Will (04:07.31)

That's it. It's underground. Yeah. So like it was, um, I came from a, for those that don't know a teaching background. Um, and I was a music teacher for like, uh, nine years coming up 10. And I was like, I don't know if you've ever had a job where you're like, this is a, you go in the door and you're like, this is a stepping stone. I'll be here for a hot minute. And then I'll,

I'll be onto the next thing. And then you're, you're there for two years, three years, four years, seven years, and you're like living the same line. Then you get to nine years and you're like, I think this is my career. Oh no. You know, and I just was doing the teaching alongside, um, I was a session musician and I used to play in orchestras for bands, for solo artists. Um, a lot of, anytime I finished my lectures at the college, I, uh,

Brian Funk (04:36.285)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (04:48.898)

Hmm.

Will (05:04.338)

also ran studios across London. I don't live in London, so it was like a big commute. We run those studios for normally like rappers, poets, singer, songwriters. And then I would dip after that back to the college. The next day I would do a lot of my session work as a drummer from the college studio so I could send that out and everything was, um, big dreams, but it was, I was always putting the college first and, and

Um, it was like that for like nine or 10 years. And then, um, the pandemic came and like for a lot of people, it just kind of like shook the, your, your little globe that you lived in up and there was like other priorities and things. And, um, there was a time, you know, I said this when we were off air, I got on so many tangents, I'll remember to come back to the Reddit thing, but you remind me if not, um, but there was a.

Brian Funk (06:02.808)

Alright.

Will (06:03.618)

Uh, at time when, uh, I think it was when Twitch came about and me and a friend, another YouTuber, um, we were both working at the college, both hadn't entered the world of YouTube yet were basically just teaching and doing some odd sessions. And we saw Twitch and we said, that'd be great if people took that platform away from game or, you know, not away from gaming, but, um, used it in.

alternative way alongside the gaming platform. And this was when there was, it was only live streams of people playing video games and then of course we did nothing and Twitch became not only a streaming for games platform, but it became the sports platform, a just talking platform, a podcast platform and a music platform as well. And we remember thinking, damn, we were, we were really on the cusp of that. And just, you know, pure laziness. Um, we didn't do anything with it.

Fast forward a few years and the pandemic. And I wanted to quit my job. I didn't want to go 10 years as a teacher at the same college. It was a college that was good when I came into it, but it was severely underfunded and really utilizing an old syllabus. Like I was genuinely teaching there in the year 2019, but teaching kids how to record the tape. And these kids, you know, they were born in...

2001, 2002, they didn't know what tape was. I was making jokes about, you know, it's the only format that you could record to and, you know, use a pen, you know, you needed a pencil around and they would just, and so, um, it was, it was, um, uh, time to take a sidestep into online education and with the pandemic and the thing being that most teachers and most people that work from home were going to utilize zoom or Google meet, I just thought about the college and how.

outdated they were, how underfunded they were and how just there weren't teachers ready to teach online. They didn't have the resources. They didn't know how to utilize a smart board, let alone, you know, set up a home system for teaching. And I thought that's the place where I feel most secure. We were doing music production. I can, I was already bringing tracks from home. This, this was even better actually.

Will (08:27.946)

So I was really ready to set up teaching from home. And then it just occurred to me that I didn't want to do that terrific thing of creating slides and animations and great sound and specific tracks and syllabus for someone else that was just going to go. Thanks. Or not even for the most part. Um, so I thought I'll set up a YouTube channel and an online.

kind of one-to-one format, which became the Patreon, and some kind of classroom, which became Discord. And it was a really terrific way to start getting to know a community, building relationships, teaching, but in the sense that I used to enjoy it. And then that's when I found Reddit, because I was looking for just resources, or I found RPAN on Reddit.

when I was looking for resources and it was something that was like, when it first came out, you, you could only stream for one hour and it was like, you had to, uh, I think you had to write in and a mod would get back to you and they would say, cool, your slot is X time or whatever, but there was like five, six people streaming on this thing called our pan and, um, everybody was like,

Brian Funk (09:48.724)

Hmm.

Will (09:54.662)

walk in their dog with their phone in their hand out on the street. The audio was terrible. It was super shaky. And, uh, it was that Twitch thing again. And I said to my friend, I was like, All you need is dedicated audio. Uh, all you need to is to be able to do it on a better camera. Cause it was only like mobile compatible. And I spoke to another friend and I was like, is there any way that you can code this so that there's like a way that I can backdoor into our pan.

Um, and, uh, stream from my computer instead of streaming from a phone. And I can play the computer audio rather than something from like the live audio mic. So from some online resources and my friend, they coded this thing that worked through, uh, I don't, I don't have any knowledge about code to this day, but it was through like text edit and it would allow me to like sync up to our pen and, um, the first stream did 140,000 people.

And I was like, we're onto something. Um, it was like really bad. They're the whole idea was just like some lo-fi beats. And this is like in the first month or two that I quit my job, no money coming in. Um, and like it was, um, the idea was like kind of lo-fi girls. Live stream. And I'd already like emailed lo-fi girl and I'd already emailed like chill hop and all these people. And was like,

Brian Funk (10:58.15)

Wow. Yeah.

Will (11:21.386)

I can do this thing live. It would be really cool to do like live gigs and that. And I never heard any anything back from anybody. So I was like, cool. I'll just do it on this our parenting. I put a telly in the background and there was like some animations there and stuff and it, so it sucked. It looks so bad. Um, I think like it might be on my Instagram if you go back far enough. And, um, the second one, I was like, cool, I want to do this again, but I want to do it better. So I got a green screen and I was like,

140,000 is good, but only if they're into lo-fi, what's keeping people there? Cause the drop off rate was crazy. And I was like, oh, what if it was like a walk with me kind of video, every week is a different place in the world. So I'd go on YouTube and I would find videos where people were doing like POV, hour plus walking videos through New York, through Canada, through Germany, through London, through wherever.

Um, and I would have that behind me as if I was traveling with the viewer. We could all see it in real time and we could comment on those things. Had a mic. Um, and I would just play like chilled beats and very quickly that became a million people watching it every week, twice a week. And I was like, Oh, this is terrific. And, and even, um,

Uh, I don't know if I'm allowed to say names, but you know, some, some high up people in Reddit gave me an email and they were like, we'd love to speak to you about this. And at the time I was like, Oh no, I'm in, I'm in trouble because this was like a backdoor thing. At the time it was only open to folks from the U S I'm some UK kid trying to, um, you know, get in on the action and whatever. And they just, you know, hit me up and we're like, this, this is really crazy. You're from the UK. You've managed to log into this thing.

Brian Funk (13:10.487)

Thank you.

Will (13:17.638)

and you're doing awesome numbers. Can you just sit down with some of the other not affiliates alumni that are also using this program and just like, you know, kind of show them the things that work, the things that didn't work. So I started working with some other creators there. And that was really the thing that sparked like better discord content, better YouTube content and the community that I'm still very close with now because

that our pan network only ran for a year. Um, it never got any particular monetization. Um, there was never like a tip jar or anything like that. It was just a chat box and just a live stream. So it really became about like, how could I be of service to a community? I wasn't crazy about the music. Um, but when I missed a stream, there were so many people that were like, I tune into this every week. And it's like, you know, a source of, um, relief.

and, uh, something I enjoy. I enjoy speaking to the other people in the chat. Um, and there was like a bunch of bad stuff that we can get into as well, but for the most part, it was a really big leg up in the online education space. And it got me to, to learn very quickly about like how to present myself online. Um, like talking headwork, um, being

more open than I ever was in a teaching background to just perform on the spot or speak on the spot. And it really cultivated a close community that, as I said, like many of them are still involved now. Many of the people that helped out with the Rpan streams are now the mods over at the Discord. And it's just become like a tight knit family, a huge family, but a tight knit family.

Brian Funk (15:13.74)

Yeah. Wow. That's really cool. Pretty awesome when you tap into something like that. Because you're getting a lot out of it, learning, figuring stuff out. But the fact too, I mean, if we can kind of remember what that time was like, all of the things that we were able to turn to were so important. They got us through it. And you were a part of that for a lot of people. It's pretty nice that they were upset when you didn't show up, for instance.

Just what a great compliment that is.

Will (15:43.726)

It's a...

Will (15:47.006)

Yeah, it's strange that, um, like it's so dreamlike, we've all spoken about the pandemic, you know, ad nauseam of how weird it was and how unique it was for each person. But there really was like a lot of things that we adopted either through work or through the government, depending on where you were based in the world that we like, even now,

Brian Funk (15:55.956)

Hmm.

Will (16:15.142)

especially for me, I don't know about for you, because my career started in the pandemic that we're so, um, we, we just can't give up because we've become so accustomed to those things that we used in the pandemic. You know, I even speak to, to family on zoom or FaceTime still, um, just because it became, I became so much more accustomed to it than, you know, just that sort of like, once a week checking on the phone, for instance. Yeah. So

it's a strange time and I owe a lot to technology and people and the time itself, even though it was gruesome for so many people, I definitely appreciate in some respects the constraints that it that it put on things because I don't think if I was pushed that hard, I would have probably ever left the college or at least I wouldn't have left

you know, like kind of that corporate kind of job.

Brian Funk (17:19.4)

Right, right, yeah. It opened up like in a weird way, kind of because the opportunities closed down, it forced the other doors open for a lot. Yeah. And a lot of that does sort of just, it's carried over. We've just gotten used to it. A lot of things for the better actually, you know, like what you're talking about is definitely a good side, good outcome of that. Very nice. So then you...

Will (17:28.031)

Absolutely, yeah.

Brian Funk (17:47.32)

transition to YouTube. That's where it moves on from there.

Will (17:52.626)

I think, yeah, pretty much I had, there was definitely some teething problems and, and I've been, um, you know, talking about forcing yourself to do something different, me speaking this into existence on, on your podcast will make me follow this up, but I've been meaning to do a video on that question itself. Um, there was some things that I hadn't got started at the right time when I started the YouTube channel, I definitely didn't have a voice.

I remember my early YouTube videos were like, I was trying to be really comedic. I'd seen other videos that I thought were akin to like what I wanted to do. And I was throwing in memes and cartoons and explosions and I was being really loud and very like, um, I guess like.

hypocritically, like I don't care about this that much, but obviously I do because I quit my job to do it. And it just, you know, it didn't, it didn't make sense in the views, I think reflected that there's still some of the lowest viewed videos on my channel. And one of the things I did was just take a month out before I really started the weekly or twice weekly content with YouTube is just trying to figure out how I was going to make a living doing this. And the video that I

Brian Funk (18:52.88)

Yeah.

Will (19:13.134)

meaning to create but I don't feel like I've done it just this year is I essentially managed to quit my job and start the YouTube career in 10 songs. I had this idea to basically create 10 songs that I would then go on to sell to producers as ghost written songs or artists but then also sell as sync

licensed songs to libraries and then also create jingles. And it would take me far too long to create a ton of content. So I'd create 10 songs, separate them into stems. And if you imagine the list of songs is like this, I would take the drum beat from the bottom song, put it at the top song, and then move all the other grooves down and then pitch all of my music. A few semitones up, maybe change one or two elements of each of those songs. And now you've got.

whole new batch of 10 songs. So I'd sell the first 10, the second batch of 10 songs, I would put on an exclusive SyncLab website and then I would take all of the intros and just the last stab of all of those songs, delete the middle and stick them together and do the same again, grooves and pitching and then I would have basically a 15 second introduction.

with a stab at the end and I could create jingles out of those. And then I uploaded those to every non-exclusive sync website as well. Um, and it was basically those 30 songs that sort of got me thinking outside the box a little bit of like, how can I

sounds a bit crude to say this, but like put minimal effort in for maximum rewards and not in a lazy sense, but I just kind of wanted to do everything and I wanted to make sure I could pay the bills, but I because I know I'm such a perfectionist I would have spent so long on 30 songs if I had decided to create 30 songs so I decided to create 10 and try to manipulate them as best as I could. And from there spawned things that I was learning along the way which then

Brian Funk (21:03.244)

Hmm.

Will (21:24.706)

created the YouTube channel to answer your question. And that's where it started. I had a lot of students that obviously were at the college that rolled over into studying online through Zoom to their respective college lecturers that were still emailing me saying like, hey, Will, like, are you coming back? This person's dropped off. And then I would hear from another student or another ex member of staff that, you know, they've lost X amount of students.

And I would just write to those people and be like, Hey, sorry that you quit the course. If you still want to study music, um, then I'm offering these services and the students that either studied with me or chose not to, but often give me ideas for the channel. You should include this, that there's this artist coming out or this person's dropped an album or how do you do this technique? Um, and it was around the time phase plant came out. So I just started focusing on, Oh, let's do phase plant content. Cause you know, I think a lot of my students are into serum. They'll probably be into phase plant.

Um, and it was really just tapping into what I'd been doing at the college, but was restricted to teach because of the syllabus at the time that I was suddenly like, cool, we can do all the fun stuff. Um, and then from there, you know, like got my first sponsor and, uh, it just kind of snowballed, but YouTube has always been since that time, the main focus.

Brian Funk (22:47.316)

Hmm. A smart way to do it. I mean, you know, I don't think there's anything you kind of said, uh, made it out like it was lazy or something, but I don't, I don't think so at all. Like you have to find ways to make it work, you know, because there's so many hours in a day and I think it's a really clever way to get around some of your tendencies of if it's perfectionism. I mean, we all have like certain things that get in our way all the time when we

Will (23:03.604)

Mm.

Will (23:16.994)

Mm.

Brian Funk (23:17.27)

music or make work around music and figure out clever things that will produce more for you is really important. It's, it's part of the trick really, you know, um, even like, if you think of like

doing like a podcast like this, I can't make a new song for the theme every time. I can't, in fact, when I wanted to start the podcast, I had all these big ideas and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna do this, it's gonna have this section, it's gonna be segments. And I never did it because it was just too much to do. It wasn't until I just started talking. Bare minimum, what can I do? What can it be? And see if I can even do that. I think a lot of times we all...

Will (23:38.668)

Mmm.

Will (23:51.022)

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Will (24:00.334)

That's brilliant.

Brian Funk (24:02.204)

bite off way more than we can chew. And we don't even know if we can do like the smallest part yet.

Will (24:08.222)

Absolutely. That there's a, um, I'm kicking myself because I forget who said it. Maybe it was multiple people. I forget where I heard it. I think it was a podcast and, uh, they were speaking about just the iPhone, just the fact that it we're on. I mean, I've, I've got a really old iPhone. I'm, I'm still on the, the iPhone 10 or iPhone X, whatever it was called, but, you know, we're on the iPhone 14, 15, 16, and you know, iOS.

point 1.2, you know, both of us use Ableton, you know, live 11.1.2.3. We've got the announcement at 12. And I remember this podcast that I was listening to being like, they released that iPhone one, knowing that it was the first iteration. It wasn't that it wasn't like, this is the phone and there'll be no more phones after that. And I remember hearing that and being like, Oh, like putting something out is better than putting out the perfect.

Brian Funk (25:00.878)

Yeah.

Will (25:07.394)

perfect. I do that all the time. Perfect thing. Um, you know, six months from now when I've missed the wave or whatever. Um, so now I try to, as much as you say, like I have all these big ideas, sometimes I just think, you know what? I'll, I'll try to get it done as best as possible and I'll put it out and I'll get the feedback and then I'll try to make adjustments, whether it be YouTube videos. Um, discord is a great example.

Can we have this or this thing doesn't work or we did have this and it was cool, but we don't use it anymore. If it's channels and things like that, um, always making changes. I don't know very much about your beginnings. Was there, is there a particular like lesson that you learned along the way where you were like, okay, this is even my, um, shortcoming and I need to get around that. Was there any like particular tricks or hacks where you were like,

Okay, this, this allows me to output more work or work better.

Brian Funk (26:14.884)

Well, I think, um, like I didn't really intend to end up here doing any of this stuff. I kind of stumbled into it. I made an Ableton live instrument rack once. It was a sample of my computer feeding back the laptop when you turn the microphone on and you have the track armed and the speakers are on and it just goes, woo, like, you know, so I sampled it, turned into cool instrument. I put it online for people to download.

Will (26:20.982)

Right.

Will (26:38.974)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (26:45.378)

And I believe synthtopia.com picked up on it and shared it. And in a weekend, I had more downloads for that than anyone ever listened to my music. I couldn't believe it. You know, it was like, there were like a couple hundred and I was like, oh my God. So I'm like, I'm going to do this again, you know, because this is fun and people like it. And what it taught me was consistency. So I think at that time, I...

Will (27:10.759)

Mmm.

Brian Funk (27:15.064)

I've always come from playing in bands. So, um, you know, I do like my solo stuff too, but especially at that time, I had a band and it was, you know, your whole heart's in it and then, you know, one day it's gone, the band doesn't exist anymore. And.

Will (27:29.688)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (27:33.324)

I needed discipline, you know, because band practice was my discipline when we get together and we were just pretty good at getting together so we did it often enough. But once that went away, I had to find something for myself and...

Will (27:37.664)

Mm.

Brian Funk (27:47.208)

That gave me to do that regularly, kept me coming back. And that's how I learned Ableton Live. That's how I learned a lot more about producing and recording. I didn't know any of that stuff really when I started. It was, I had like an idea, but I, you know, Ableton Live especially was a new software for me. It was...

Yeah, it was just like the consistency stuff and it wasn't perfect. I didn't know what I was doing. Um, but I just went for it. And I don't think you can know what you're doing until you start going in a lot of these situations. And that's something I've come to embrace that I kind of don't know where I'm driving the car until I get in the car and start driving it. And if I make a wrong turn, I'll, I'll change course. And, um,

Will (28:18.236)

Mmm.

Will (28:32.513)

Right.

Brian Funk (28:38.32)

It's so much better to do that than to wait for like all the lights to turn green and then I'll go. Cause then I'll never go. I think that was just something that clicked in me that you kind of have to just drive in the dark without any headlights on and trust you're going to get somewhere. I mean, sometimes you know what you want to accomplish and you have a goal, but a lot of times you don't really figure that out until you start looking.

Will (28:42.737)

Mm-hmm. Mm.

Will (28:57.838)

That's it.

Brian Funk (29:06.288)

And I've probably spent some time after the band, just maybe making a couple songs here and there, but not really knowing what I was doing. So it was, I think that's it, right? Just, you gotta kind of go. Same thing with songwriting. Sometimes you gotta just start jamming, playing your instrument, just fooling around. So once in a while you have inspiration and you know, I'm gonna make this song. I got this idea, the lyrics are in my head, everything's already coming together.

Will (29:14.158)

Mm.

Brian Funk (29:36.182)

That's so rare and if you wait for that, you do almost nothing.

Will (29:40.17)

Hmm. It's so interesting. You, you say that there's a, there's a few things that really like resonate with me and that, you know, sidetrack mind wants me to go in these three different directions, but I'm just going to pick one and like you said, I'm just going to, I'm just going to go. We'll end up wherever we end up, but, um, I have a, uh, come from a band background as well. Um, and the.

showing up the rehearsals thing was, was always easy. And they're, uh, kind of always hoping that next gig is going to be, that's going to be the gig, you know, and then we'll be, uh, getting paid a little bit better or be on the road constantly and whatever. And I, I saw, um, my friend the other day who we did so many sessions together. And I said,

Sometimes I reminisce about like, Oh man, we haven't played a gig in a long time. We haven't had a rehearsal or something like that. And then I realized I don't miss worrying about where I'm going to park, worrying if travel is going to be paid for, uh, you know, like eating the shitty food, topping tailing on, you know, bunk beds, sleeping in buses, getting home late, being tired, like

feeling exhausted and having to only play for, you know, sort of 20, 20 minutes or 30 minutes or maybe an hour. But it like the rehearsal was three hours this side and getting home was two hours at this side and, and it was kind of in the streaming elements, um, and the YouTube stuff and whatever that I really became like comfortable.

performing in this space, in the space that you see right now and being...

Will (31:46.518)

being just...

Will (31:50.778)

uh, appreciative of like how perfect the sound is. Like the headphones are always at the perfect volume. The speakers are always just where I need them. I don't have to like say to a, to a live engineer, like, yeah, up here, like, you know, I don't have to do any of that stuff. I don't have to be like vocals, you know? And I, I don't know if I would ever go back to, to gigging again.

Brian Funk (32:01.832)

Yeah, right.

Will (32:19.202)

That was one way I wanted to go with what you said. The other thing that was great was it was reactive. Like you said, driving in the dark, you know, and you're just going to get somewhere. I knew that like there were other members of the band. I was a session musician, so it was always learning other people's songs. And that kept me on my toes a lot. And I think the YouTube thing and, and solo production and, and doing things alone can be this.

vicious cycle of like thinking, I haven't got anything new. I've got nothing in the tank, you know? I don't know what to create content on this week or I don't know what to teach people because I haven't made a new song, I haven't created a new rack or a new chain or this or that. And it was actually today that I was a bit stuck for content for the following week. And I was like, damn, I haven't.

I haven't focused on making anything new music wise for a while. And it was just one of my patron students that was like, I want to focus on writing new melodies and writing better melodies and what constitutes as an earworm. Then I thought, you know what? I'll start writing that one-to-one session. Cause I try and plan all my sessions the week.

before I see these students. So I've got kind of like this person's lesson prepared and this person's lesson prepared. And I was like, I'll start that one. And it was in that, that there was like some really good questions. Like what, what is an earworm? Like what is a good catchy melody? Rather than just a melody, you and I can write melodies, but like, what is, what makes it like catchy and unforgettable? And through learning something that I didn't know about, it's like, that's the content. Oh, brilliant. I made loads of notes. This is a terrific video. And they're always the...

videos I forget and I forget this every time whether it's every week every month every six months I forget every time it happens that like when I learn something and I create the content on like I've learned this let me share it with you it's always the best videos because I'm genuinely excited I'm like I didn't know this existed and it doesn't matter if somebody else in the comments says like oh you didn't know that right click button was there in Ableton like we all knew that I'm like I didn't I'm so excited about it and there's a bunch of other people that are

Will (34:43.894)

The videos where I'm like, I've made a song, let me share it with you. I like faux excitement. They're there. I'm excited and I want to present it, but it was already there and it was kind of already organic. And I'm just going into the bank and trying to find what was here that you may be of interest, but you haven't asked for it. So, you know, it's good if, if you have come across it and you did enjoy it.

And today was one of those reminders. Like you said, driving in the dark, just go, don't wait for all of the green lights. Um, and in that kind of momentum of trying to learn something new, it feels to me like I build the best content. And I have to try and bear that in mind if I can, of like just every day, just try and learn something new every day and just bank up a nice big list of

cool stuff that I didn't know existed. Is there something in your repertoire and your roadmap of like

thing that makes you produce the best content

Brian Funk (36:01.044)

Probably that excitement. Yeah. When something occurs to me, when I realize something and I'm excited about it, or I've done something that I haven't done before, or something new, or you just stumble upon it. And sometimes it's, you forget. Like that's a good thing to share. And there's, as you do this more and more, I'm sure you know, like you kind of like, you can very easily get into like,

Will (36:03.423)

Mm.

Brian Funk (36:32.16)

That's already been done. But it's kind of all already been done. In a lot of ways.

Will (36:35.821)

Mmm.

Brian Funk (36:38.568)

There's this and that, but sometimes you hear it a certain way or you figure it out a certain way that really kind of rings with you, it makes you get it. Um, you hear a story or you make some connection with life that is like making a melody, you know, and it's like a conversation and suddenly like you see all these connections like, Oh yeah. And that's when I think it gets exciting and fun because you, you've got that.

Will (36:57.366)

Absolutely.

Brian Funk (37:08.962)

in you and it comes through in your delivery. Yeah, even in my teaching, there are certain things that I come back to every year, every course or whatever that are just good. Like I know this is a good way to put it. This has worked in the past.

But sometimes I'm a little surprised that they don't hit as hard as they did the first time. And it's because, well now I'm not feeling it the same way. I'm, I'm just telling about how I felt and how it was. So yeah, it's like, um, the enthusiasm, I guess.

Will (37:32.289)

Right.

Will (37:36.322)

Hmm

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (37:46.252)

And that, cause a lot of times when I start doing this stuff, I'm discovering it too, even as I'm talking about it. I've learned that so much about doing this podcast. Cause when I do an episode, that's just by myself talking about something, I'm kind of like working out my thoughts and putting it into words in real time.

Will (38:06.286)

That's all.

Brian Funk (38:11.004)

And that's really a helpful thing to do. And sometimes as you're doing it, you're like, yeah. Like, oh yeah, okay. This is how it is for me. And like, this is how I see it. And it's helpful. It's like, you're going through it together, I guess. And I think that's probably why you're seeing that in like your comments, where some people like, are really jazzed by what you're saying. Cause it's got that sense of like, I figured this out too. You did a video recently with like,

Will (38:18.389)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (38:40.958)

and drums and I got the impression like you and you might have said that even in the video like a student had said something to you how do I make more interesting beats and then you kind of went into it and I could almost

see that as you were talking about it, it was as if while you were talking about it, the idea sparked, you know, like it's like, I think you said like the butterfly effect and you know, like those things sometimes don't happen unless you start doing it first.

Will (39:05.695)

Absolutely.

Will (39:09.89)

Hmm. It's, it's, I think something that I tried to consciously go into with the, with anything that I do, whether it be you and I talking right now, whether it be conversation with family on the phone, but especially the YouTube, the

Will (39:36.974)

patronize anybody and anybody that's ever studied with me on the Patreon one-to-one. It's like the first thing I say in the first lesson is there are so many things that we're gonna go over and First of all, I Don't want to like undermine your knowledge So therefore I might skip some things because I've been doing it for like what Ableton I Don't know the last five or six years

I was using logic for 10 years before that. And I've been, you know, doing production for half of my life. So there are little things, whether it be copy paste, the shortcut for that, or whatever, that I might just gloss over because I don't want to go as low to be like, okay, so this is a keyboard and down here, you know, and I always tell my patron students, like if at any point I'm going too quickly, just interrupt me.

But the same goes for if I'm being too patronizing and I'm being too slow, interrupt me. There's no, I don't feel any shame. You're paying for this hour that we're spending together. Um, and I want you to get the most out of it. It's quite hard to, um,

to try and explain that in a YouTube video because a lot of people do come back, but there are a lot of new people, but still I can't say every week, like I hope I'm not patronizing you, but I wanna talk about XYZ. So I just talk about XYZ, but oftentimes I'll say in the Discord, how was that? Like, did you think this about this content or that thing? And so many people, the community seems so kind.

Uh, I think in general for all of us, like, um, music tutorial, like teacher type content creators, I think generally the community is kind, um, but everybody is like, so supportive in the fact that like, no, we dig it just because you seem to be lighting up about it. And that session that you, or that lesson that you, uh, mentioned with the rhythms. That was a real thing, uh, that occurred in a Patreon session.

Will (41:52.478)

and was one of those elements that I skipped over. And it's like, create a rhythm. That's cool. Create another room. And in my head, I'm thinking, dude, that's the same rhythm, but you just added a second kick, you know, and we'll have those funny moments where I'll be like, that's not different enough, you know, we'll laugh, he'll laugh, she'll laugh. And then they throw the question of like, will you do something then? And I go, well, what about this? And they go.

Well, how'd you, not how do you play that? But how, how did you think about that? Oh, I get so excited by that question because it's like, how did you play? It's easy. I always found drums easy. I tried to learn every other instrument and I always found drums easy. Cause it's like Simon says, it's just like hit the red button, hit the blue button. Now you do it. Hit the red button, hit the blue button. All right, we're going to take it up a little red button, blue button, green button. And it's like, okay, I can do that. Um, but then.

when someone says like, why did you pick up Simon says? And you're like, Oh, I don't know. Like you have to go back. So to explain to someone, like, how do you think of, I'm like, quote unquote, I wasn't the person that coined this obviously, but like, how do you think of unusual rhythms and what constitutes an unusual rhythm? It was like, Oh dude, that's so exciting. I glossed over that because I just didn't think it was important because I learned to play the drums, you know, when I was sort of 11, 12 years old.

Let's dive into it and then create a whole lesson on it and, and go down the rabbit hole of like, uh, this might be interesting to you. And if so, like strapping, this is going to be sick. If not, feel free to tune out because I'm, I'm excited about it. And I'm, you know, I want to go down this tangent and, you know, through, through the patron and through the YouTube, I think that comes across. I think it, I think it's obvious when.

There's enough videos there now that I think it's obvious when I'm forcing it. There was a, there was a section, uh, where my friends and partner and family were like telling me like, your, your do a come up. Cause there was just this period of in the middle of the, like all my YouTube videos where it was like 300 views, 500 reviews, 200 views, 600 views. Like they were all low in comparison to where they were and in comparison to where they are now, they were all like super low.

Will (44:22.266)

And I think when I, I keep them there, because when I go back and watch them, they're like, so obvious to each week, I'm like, all right, we're going to do another song. And it's the same song that you heard last week. And I'm just going to change the key. Um, and I think like the last video that I, you know, there was a little bit of a come up and then there was a video where I was like really ill. I had pink eye for the first time, you know, in my life from a Limp Bizkit concert, and I did a video where I was like,

I've got pink eye, like this will be a funny video. And it was like, dude, it was like so similar to the videos from that. I told you about that. I was uploading at the start of the YouTube career. I was like trying to be funny and I was doing it again. And I was like, look how bad I've got it. I got pink eyes, limp biscuit, and I was throwing in memes to try and cover up the fact that I was embarrassed and I was just trying to force out content. And again, the community was so kindly didn't watch the video, which is fine.

Brian Funk (44:53.232)

Like the perfect place to get it.

Brian Funk (45:06.193)

Yeah.

Will (45:18.686)

And then they were like, if you're sick, just take a week off. It's not that big a deal, bro. And I was like, Oh, you, you know, like every, you know, you can't, you can't, um, undermine the audience. And you, you like billet or their intelligence. They'll, they'll tell you either verbatim through the discord, through DMS, like, no, we're here to support. We know what's, you know, when it's good and we'll tell you when it's bad. Or they'll just tell you through. Actively.

clicking out other videos and you'll see that like drop off rate of your videos or you'll see the negative views and you're like, okay, I went wrong there. It's cool. Let's try and take it back to something that's interesting. Um, and I think that that's the same for like sponsored videos. It's the same for, um, Shellyne courses or anything like that. If you, if you're just taking the audience for a ride, I think they really see through it. I've had the same sponsor since I started the channel and it was genuinely cause I use this joke.

And I was like that same silly excitement that I get, I was like, this is wicked. Like I can add this idea of like starting a record label and trying to put music out. And then I was like, Oh, it's really hard to put songs out and figure out like putting something on Spotify seems like magic. And you're like, how do you call them? And you're like, how I would like to upload one song please. Um, and, and to

Brian Funk (46:38.408)

Yeah.

Will (46:42.626)

from there to trying to put out your own music and then find a district kid. I was like, this is ACE. And then I was talking about them in videos and then they reached out and they were like, you're doing this thing already. Do you want, do you want us to sponsor here? You just, you carry on talking about them. And I thought, Oh, this is the perfect marriage because now I don't have to pretend like this week we're sponsored by these water bottles. They're so good. You should all have a water bottle. Like, Oh, I was just like, you know, that thing,

Brian Funk (46:57.416)

Cool.

Brian Funk (47:09.928)

whenever I need a drink.

Will (47:12.194)

Dude, I'm getting thirsty. Like, you know, I was like this thing that I'm always talking about. I'm going to keep talking about, but now they're a sponsor and I think that's cool. And when they bring new stuff out, I'll be like, that's cool. And, you know, I don't think they ever well will, but you know, everything changes and if, if DistroKid for some reason went under new management and took a turn and it all went like hellish, then I'll be like, Oh, it's not working for me anymore. And I would just have.

I'd have no ads, but I'm very like, yeah, just very honest with the audience. And I think that resonates. I just try and be sure with my answers, I think.

Brian Funk (47:52.2)

Yeah, it's enthusiasm. You must do a lot of editing in your videos, huh?

Will (48:00.482)

Dude, my videos are like, what's your... I'm not gonna say anything, so I don't contribute to your answer. When you shoot an episode, how long is it?

Brian Funk (48:12.116)

Uh, that's pretty much...

exactly on time. That's the total lie. No, there's a lot of stop and start and there's stitching things together and it really depends on how self-conscious I'm feeling that day, because sometimes it's these little things and sometimes I'll listen back and be like, why did I do that seven times? It was fine, but you get in your head.

Will (48:30.792)

Oh, yeah.

Will (48:38.083)

Mmm.

Brian Funk (48:45.045)

Oh, it's all of that. And that's like the worst part of it. There's so much of that. That's why I like the podcast to be just kind of what you see is what you get, unless there's some problem or some major interruption, then we fix it. But otherwise, if it was anything more than that, it wouldn't get done. So yeah, there's a lot of that. There's a lot of...

Will (48:49.421)

Mm.

Will (48:58.102)

Mm-hmm.

Will (49:07.202)

Hmm. Are you naturally introverted or extroverted?

Brian Funk (49:14.452)

I think I'm introverted naturally, but I think I've had some training to be extroverted. So I don't know if you know, I teach high school English as a day job. That's my life as a like grown up. Right? So, and this ties into something you were saying too earlier.

Will (49:28.05)

Right, I didn't know that. Okay. Wow.

Brian Funk (49:37.432)

And it's the enthusiasm thing. And playing live, it's the same thing. Like you have to be into it. No one wants to watch you play if you're bored. Like you gotta like get into it. Come on, you're playing your music. Get excited, like dig it up. And usually if you don't feel it and you try to feel it, like you'll get there. And...

Will (49:47.937)

Yeah.

Will (49:55.544)

Yep.

Brian Funk (50:02.676)

Teaching high school English where I have basically captive prisoners, like it's not like they can leave the venue if they don't like it. Like they're stuck. Like it's a show every day. It's like I put on that hat and it's like, here comes Mr. Funk and like I'm animated and I got to get psyched about everything we do. And it's, it's clear.

Will (50:08.046)

Hahaha

Will (50:13.173)

Yeah.

Will (50:20.001)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (50:29.208)

in the reaction I get from my students. If I'm not feeling it, I can tell just by looking at them. So I've gotten a lot of practice, I guess, day in and day out, something like 7, 10 in the morning. I'm excited. You're 15 and want to sleep till noon. And you don't want to be here.

Will (50:46.731)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (50:54.772)

So you got to turn it on. And I have the most fun when I do that too. When I, when I succumb to the laziness or the, when I'm uninspired about something, uh, it drags and it's the same thing when you're playing music. If you, if you let that get the best of you, like playing live can be hell. It can be so uncomfortable and torturous. And, but if you just decide, like, I'm going to have the time of my life doing this.

Will (51:08.763)

Mmm.

Brian Funk (51:24.868)

It makes a huge difference that your energy is so contagious because in both of those situations, you're kind of like, you're supplying it, you're putting it out. You're on stage, you got loud music, like you're in control of the mood of the room. And in the classroom, you're in front of everybody. It's like being on a stage. So you have to turn that on, and especially when you don't want to. So I think...

Will (51:26.432)

Yeah.

Will (51:45.206)

Absolutely.

Will (51:52.75)

Mmm.

Brian Funk (51:54.852)

I think I've gotten a lot of good practice being extroverted when I need to be. But yeah, my way of being is, is more to kind of lay back. I think gave you the longest answer to tell you, like, I think I'm introverted.

Will (52:06.866)

interesting.

Will (52:10.742)

Dude, you're talking to the king of long answers here. I don't think I've answered one of your questions with like, yeah, I agree. I appreciate that. I think I side with, with it as well. Like, um, it's, it's weird. I, I'm so obsessed with asking people in, in our industry, whether it be performance or whether it be just YouTube in a nutshell, um, about like their.

Brian Funk (52:20.014)

Well, you make my job easier.

Will (52:40.334)

introvert, extrovert, nervous disposition, how they are as a person, because it seems like for the most part, we're pretty introverted, which is why or because it's just like, I'm gonna record myself and put it out in the world and see what happens and let people, you know, have their opinion. That's what I learned from the RPAN stuff is a million people twice a week every week and

most of the comments were good, but there was like a lot of bad comments for every comment that was like, dude, I get up in the morning and you make me not want to kill myself. There's like two comments that are like, you should kill yourself. And you're like, Oh, Jesus Christ. So like, it's interesting. Absolutely. And I think

Brian Funk (53:24.604)

Well, it's inevitable at those numbers. Even if it's just someone fooling around with their friend, like, hey, watch this, ha ha, you know, like, you're just gonna, the odds.

Will (53:34.014)

absolutely do, but I would like, you know, take it away and, and then I'll be at dinner like, yo, that's crazy. And it, and, and I've spoken to so many people that, uh, and sometimes I think it comes through. Um, you've had the pleasure of speaking to Venus theory. I love that podcast episode. Um, and I think that's somebody that I think he, he seems quite introverted as well. And, um, like it's so

Brian Funk (54:02.844)

Well, he told me he doesn't even like live music. He doesn't like going to shows and seeing live music, which is so funny as a musician. But I get it too. Yeah, but in a way, I don't mean to interrupt you, but it is a way to sort of be alone, but not be alone, when you're sitting in front of the camera or whatever. Yeah, go ahead, sorry.

Will (54:07.523)

Hahaha!

Will (54:17.44)

No.

Will (54:22.963)

Exactly.

It's, it's, it's funny. Did the beat, I know, don't apologize. It's just conversations, but the be alone and not be alone thing is interesting. It reminds me of the conversation I had just this week. Um, that same friend guy used to, uh, session with he lives around the corner and, um, we went for coffee and both him and I, not dissimilar to, to Venus theory of like.

not enjoying watching live music is we don't really hang around with people that are also musicians and talk about music. So if anybody else is talking about music, we're like, whatever, right? I don't want to talk about that. I do it all day. I don't want to talk about that. Him and I seem to talk about music for the majority of our conversations or at least squeeze it into a conversation every time we see each other. And I was like,

What is that? What is that about you and I? We, we say we don't want to talk about music that much. We don't have any musical friends, but you and I will talk about the music until the cows come home. And I think there's gotta be something similar to again, like being a musician and maybe not wanting to go and see live music, maybe it's something about like the magic of you and I have played on stage. So we kind of know we can hear odd things. If something's the intonation is out of guitar or the

bass drum pedal squeaking or there's a little bit of feedback on a certain resonance or something like that. Whereas I think that goes over a lot of people's head and they're like, we're out. And it's not just about the gig, but it's like, we don't have the kids tonight and we're like, I've got a drink in my hand and the lights are cool. And there's a bit of a buzz. Whereas I'm like, all right, so he's using pro mark five B's and that's a medium weight drumstick. Okay. Sometimes there's a little bit too much overthinking to be able to just enjoy it. Like

Brian Funk (56:21.265)

Yeah, sure.

Will (56:22.514)

along with everybody else. Yeah, very strange, very strange.

Brian Funk (56:29.384)

Yeah, sometimes I guess that does happen and you find yourself thinking about little details that are, they don't really matter to the overall experience. But I don't love crowds anyway, so that's one thing you kind of...

Will (56:38.53)

Mm.

Brian Funk (56:48.66)

putting up with, I guess, you know, for live shows. They can be great when it's all nice and harmonious and stuff, but I do like being home and relaxed and all of that stuff.

Will (56:50.266)

Mm.

sure.

Will (57:05.518)

Do you think that will ever be behind us, the live music thing?

Brian Funk (57:10.632)

behind us, like we don't do it anymore.

Will (57:13.633)

In terms of

I guess a good example is the sphere in Vegas, right? It seems like definitely, go with me on this, it feels like it's more about the sphere and going to see how crazy the sphere is and all the visuals and everything that goes with it than seeing for right now.

you too, but in future, you know, whatever the crazy band is. And I wonder that coupled with AI coupled with, you know, live streaming and, and things that people enjoy on a daily basis for a cheaper price point as well. Do you think that there will always be a long in for like

Brian Funk (57:43.804)

Like, you too, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Will (58:10.714)

Let's be in the audience and let's watch some people perform on stage.

Brian Funk (58:18.844)

Well, I think something like the sphere, that's one of those things where the venue is almost the attraction and it's, wow, look at this. Sometimes venues have that, I think.

Will (58:26.306)

Hmm

Brian Funk (58:34.96)

And sometimes when you see like a huge show like that, you're almost like not even at the show anyway, like you're watching the screen, you know, your seat is so far and it's so separated. But.

Will (58:44.93)

Hmm

Brian Funk (58:52.276)

To me, like that doesn't excite me all that much anymore to go to like a concert at like Madison Square Garden and there's, you know, it's filled up and I can see that the band is down there but I want to really see them. I got to look at the screen. Like I really much prefer

Will (59:08.142)

That's all.

Brian Funk (59:11.256)

And in a lot of those cases too, you almost don't even know what you're hearing. Like, are they playing? Are they backing tracks? Like, I don't know what's going on. I can't see. I can't see his drumsticks and whether he's got the like five Ds or what he's using. So I don't even know. And it looks like they're hitting the drums and then I hear the sound because I'm so far away. But when you go and see in like a small grimy place and it's...

Will (59:21.886)

Yeah

Will (59:29.998)

Hmm

Brian Funk (59:40.488)

obvious that they're playing and it's you're right there and yeah the sound might not be that great and whatever um that to me has that energy that's it's like that punk rock like we're here together and that's really fun like i don't think that'll ever get old because that's just thrilling when you when you get to see like a good musical act in a small place and there's people around and it's all moving together when you're sitting in the seat

and you're kind of just watching TV, basically. I don't know, I don't get as excited about those anymore. I don't feel as connected to it. I don't know what's gonna happen, but I don't think, and even when you just, you know, like, especially like when I see like younger kids these days, sometimes they just see somebody playing a guitar and they're just like, wow.

Will (01:00:14.914)

Hmm.

Will (01:00:22.114)

Yeah, I agree.

Brian Funk (01:00:36.988)

I got so cool. You're just playing a guitar. You're just playing a piano. They're almost not used to that because everything is so polished and it's such a big production. It doesn't even... Look, it's amazing what we can do now too, you know? But I don't know that that...

visceral, you know, almost like early man banging around a fire making rhythms. I don't, I just think that's too rooted in who we are. That like, you can't deny that energy.

Will (01:01:09.851)

Sure, yeah.

Brian Funk (01:01:14.792)

What are you thinking? Maybe not. Goodbye, live music.

Will (01:01:14.879)

Hmm

Will (01:01:22.866)

I don't think... No, I just think...

Will (01:01:31.658)

I think there's a time and place. I agree with you, like the smallest venues where I am. Like the artist is here and I, and I'm my, you know, right foot is having to, to lean on the front of the stage, like those, um, or there is no stage. They're the best gigs and they feel so intimate. Um, there's a couple of gigs that come to mind where I was in the middle of nowhere. Um,

And there is also an artist that is touring, you know, across country, whatever. And that is a, that's a perfect storm. I wasn't necessarily looking to go to a gig or, or if I was, I didn't know who the artist was going to be. And

You were kind of just touring across the country and trying to find venues that would put you up. And it's maybe a girl and her guitar or something like that. And they're like my favorite, um, performances that I've been to. Sometimes the audience makes up the, the performance that I've been to as well. If like the audience really resonates and everybody's, uh, nice and dancing together.

Cause there's some gigs where you, you know, you go and, and people are fighting or people are drunk or what, and that like ruins the experience. So I agree with you there, but I think like.

Will (01:03:06.738)

like everything there has to be like an evolution and it has to, it has to get, not better, but there has to be some kind of improvement to the performance. So there is a wow factor. So people can be like, I haven't heard that before. I haven't seen that before. Um, like I think, um, dude, I got a band in my head and I know I'm gonna

watch this again or somebody I know is going to watch this and they're going to be like, dude, why did you say those? And I'm already kicking myself because it's not a band, not that anyone's going to believe me. It's not going to never live biscuit. I've always got time. It's not a bad, I listen to it's not a bad that I am particularly excited about, but I just think the gig experience, it seems like they have it down and everybody that is into that band has a

Brian Funk (01:03:44.284)

Limp Bizkit?

Will (01:04:05.154)

do Coldplay, like Coldplay, I don't know about the rest of the world, but I read this year, last year, a couple of years ago, that the gigs in the UK, the stadium tour that they were doing, they were powering the stadium themselves. So they had like these, this floor that when you were jumping around and you were dancing, that was generating the energy and the power for the stadium, everybody dancing. And I know like years back.

when I was a teenager or when I was a kid, my parents' friends, they were into Coldplay and then they went and the wristbands that were your ticket, they all lit up and everybody like was in sync with the music. So when they played like, I don't know if it was the whole concert but maybe their biggest tune or maybe a few of their biggest hits, when those songs played, the wristbands didn't just light up but like.

there was a Mexican wave of colors and there was like this kind of thing that was controlled by the music to the audience. And I think that makes it a special experience in it. And it kind of puts the audience as part of it, especially like power in the stadium or power in the live equipment or whatever it was, like we can't put on this show without you and you should be here for a show. And we're going to make this like big and exciting. Um, I think,

you know, and especially with the streaming stuff and how visuals work and VR, I feel like there has to be, um, something that like continues to propel, like we've now gone into the new age of live music and this is what it is. It doesn't detract from the singer. It's not like some cheap auto tune trick or anything like that, but I do think it, I do think it will evolve somewhere. I wish I had an answer for that. I'm was like,

and I'm the guy to do it. It's not me, but I do think yeah, like it will. I think it's, I think it will go somewhere for sure.

Brian Funk (01:06:04.568)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:06:10.428)

Hmm. Well, those are cool ideas. Like you said, I never heard about the powering the concert. That's really cool. And that makes you feel like, like I kind of want to go to that, you know, I'm not a huge Coldplay fan necessarily, but I want to see that. I want to, you know. Yeah, like, like it matters that you're there. It's important. That's...

Will (01:06:25.627)

That's the answer we wanted.

Will (01:06:35.731)

Exactly.

Brian Funk (01:06:37.416)

That's what you want, right? When you go to a show. And this is, I guess, the thing that bugs me. And look, maybe like...

You know, I like using computers to make music and all, but sometimes they're used to safeguard everything too much. And I really have a hard time. This is one of those things you were talking about earlier, where the musician in you gets in the way. When I can't tell if I'm seeing you play the guitar or if I'm hearing the backing track or there's all this other music coming. And I don't know who's doing what anymore.

Will (01:06:53.591)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (01:07:14.582)

feeling of like I don't even know if I'm just watching people like dancing on stage pretending. I can't tell and that just doesn't sit well with me um for some weird reason and you know other people enjoy it just fine they don't even think about it but I

Will (01:07:20.2)

Mmm.

Will (01:07:30.419)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:07:35.692)

I like to know that there's like an element of danger kind of like stuff could go wrong or like they're going to do something different or it's going to have a little variety from the show they did last night in Cleveland. Like it's not just like I want to feel like I'm at a special thing. That's why I go to a show. It's like it's a one time event. And when it doesn't feel like it's that I just I don't know. It doesn't feel important.

Will (01:07:39.175)

Yeah.

Will (01:07:50.186)

Absolutely.

Will (01:07:55.892)

Mm-hmm.

Will (01:08:04.254)

I get awfully introspective about YouTube and Instagram and TikTok content for the, almost the same reason. But like if I do some of my, I haven't posted to Instagram for quite a while, but when I used to do regular posts and I used to try and do it on the spot, all one take like it has to be perfect. Especially if it was like, um,

like a beat making video, definitely on the kit. Like it was a thing that I was familiar with that I prided myself on. So it had to be one take. And then I realized that there were so many people that did like mimed content or there was just something there. There's like, I wouldn't dare name any names, but there's like plenty of channels that they'll like, you know, get something and

hit that thing and that's a sample and then they move on to the next thing and then they make they make all of this music out of these samples but like I've heard that sample it's come from splice so you know I know that it doesn't sound that good because you're so close to the mic that it should sound bassy but it sounds perfect so it's probably not sampled if it is then you probably did it on a previous take and then you've mixed and mastered that thing

Dude, I get too introspective about it. And then I just start thinking like, other people just enjoy the content. And like, sometimes I think that that's.

Will (01:09:39.886)

I wish there was like a, uh, I don't want to sound like a Debbie down on this, but like, I wish there was a button that could like, you know, men in black, like flash me in the eyes and I forget everything and I could just enjoy it the same way that everybody else could enjoy it. And I don't have to be like, did they really record that? Or was that, is that mimed? I don't know. Um, I do the same with like, you know, I don't know about over your side of the pond, but in the UK, David Attenborough.

is the guy like, and any documentary that David Attenborough voices, the whole country goes into lockdown once again. And we watch those documentaries altogether and we enjoy it. And I realized, it's great. There's nothing not to love, but there's, well, there is, there's one specific thing not to love that I think I drive my, I drive my friends so insane with this.

Brian Funk (01:10:23.384)

It's great.

Brian Funk (01:10:30.681)

I think I know where you're going.

Will (01:10:37.046)

And I don't know why I do it because I stop enjoying it myself, but it's when they, if they're filming like locusts eating something, that the locusts are like, you hear all the foley. And I'm like, that I'm, you know, I'm just trying not to explode. And I have to say, and I'm like, that's not the real volume.

Brian Funk (01:10:49.232)

and you hear everything.

Brian Funk (01:10:55.651)

Alright.

Will (01:10:59.554)

That's foli and they overdubbed it and everybody's like, Oh, here we go again. Just enjoy the thing. But it takes, it takes me so far out of the show to know that I'm like getting something that my friend told me. I apologize to anybody that know that, that doesn't know this already, but this ruined films. A friend that works in film told me that, um, in almost every scene, I thought it was just outside.

Brian Funk (01:11:04.657)

Uh huh huh.

Will (01:11:27.83)

But apparently in most scenes that on a like a isolated set or whatever, they're they overdub everything. And I thought it was just outside cars, like, you know, the wind, whatever. But even if it's like moving about a house, moving about a room, pretty much everything is overdubbed dude. And now I just watch actors mouths like a hawk. And if I sense that there's like a little bit of overdubbing going on, or, you know, when you get the character from behind.

And you can see that their cheeks aren't moving when they're talking. Um, out dude. So I really get in my own way when I'm too like analytical of this. I'm no fun to be around. That's why I'm, that's why I'm an introvert.

Brian Funk (01:12:00.196)

Yeah, no. All right, all right.

Brian Funk (01:12:12.676)

That's why it's good you're YouTubing. You know, you're right. I've watched like the ants walking around and you hear all their little feet moving and it's like, how did they record that? And if they did, and if they did, that microphone's so sensitive it's picking up everything in a four mile radius. There's no way.

Will (01:12:15.379)

Exactly.

Will (01:12:25.134)

Yeah, just the tiniest microphone.

Will (01:12:34.903)

Absolutely.

Brian Funk (01:12:37.484)

I think too in a lot of those, even the encounters with the animals, I think are suspect. I don't know enough about it, but it's like, okay, how did they get the camera there? Now are they filming that? I was watching one recently.

Will (01:12:45.652)

Mmm.

Will (01:12:51.79)

Well, the BBC got under trouble. Like, sorry to interrupt. The BBC got in trouble with, it was many, many seasons ago, many years ago. I think I was a teenager or whatever, but they had been caught, I think it was Blue Planet, and they'd been caught like filming fish in an aquarium to get like some of the footage. And everybody was like, how dare you? And you're like, dude.

Come on man, like the camp for a lot of the shows, the camera is already in the nest, you know, when they're, when the eggs hatch or whatever, you know, I think, uh, yeah, I agree with you. I'm a little, a little suspect of these shows for sure. Sorry to interrupt, buddy.

Brian Funk (01:13:36.456)

Yeah, no, it's funny. It's like the curse, I guess, when you start getting into like creating stuff, you start thinking about how it's made, and then sometimes a little bit of the magic is taken away. But the funny thing is, is that's actually kind of magic that when they first started doing that stuff, it was like state of the art. Oh, you know, we can make this movie sound a lot better if we re-record the actors saying these lines into a microphone in a studio.

Will (01:13:49.176)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:14:06.53)

rather than on stage. And to get it to sync up and look natural is... that's a pretty big feat. But...

Yes, it is also the type, it's funny because I think it's the type of thing that kind of pulls you in on some levels, because you hear all that they hear the ants eating their leaves, it's really vivid. It pulls you in, but it can also be the same thing that makes you sort of see through the, you know, behind the curtain, the Wizard of Oz type of thing.

Will (01:14:35.287)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:14:41.256)

It's the blessing and the curse, I guess, we got, you know, like as like a creative, especially I think, I'm not a video editor. I never learned, I just learned how to do what I do. That's probably, I probably don't need to say that for anyone watching any of my stuff, but it's, they're like, no kidding, buddy.

Will (01:14:44.662)

Absolutely.

Will (01:14:55.042)

Same, yeah. Yeah, they're watching our stuff and they're like, we know.

Brian Funk (01:15:04.412)

But as you start playing around with that stuff, you start to realize, like some of these little tricks you can do, we talk about cutting things together in scenes, like if I wanna make it look like I said that whole sentence in one shot, I can just zoom in on the camera.

Will (01:15:18.658)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (01:15:18.712)

I can pull that, that shot halfway through the sentence. If it cuts closer to my face, that's like a little trick. So you didn't realize that it's a new take. It's a, it's funny how that works. But, and as a viewer though, sometimes that pulls you in because you're like, Oh no, like it's just one of those things that interrupts your, um, I don't know. It just, it's not a static image the whole time. It's a little closer. It's a little further away.

Will (01:15:25.182)

Yep. Yep, absolutely.

Will (01:15:34.434)

Mm.

Brian Funk (01:15:47.08)

But I know now, that's me covering up a mistake or something. That's probably why a lot of other people are doing it too. There we go, secrets out.

Will (01:15:53.134)

All right, now everybody else knows it too.

Will (01:16:02.122)

Is there a particular YouTuber that you watch where, or it doesn't have to be a YouTuber, but a particular show, YouTube could be one, like anything that.

Will (01:16:19.262)

inspires the work that you do.

Brian Funk (01:16:25.72)

Oh yeah, I think they all do. There's so many that I watch and I'm just like, ah, it's so cool, they got like a little thing they say and it sounds natural and it's like the catchphrase, there's this one guy I watch on YouTube, he's a video game YouTuber and...

Will (01:16:36.886)

Mmm.

Brian Funk (01:16:46.056)

He's called, and he just like does documentaries on games, like arcade games, and then the releases that went home. It's such a nostalgic trip for me. But he always starts it out with like, as the story goes, and then he tells you, and then he says like, and if you haven't had a chance to try this game, give it a shot. You'll be glad you did. And every time he says, I'm like, yes, say it along with them, you know, and yeah, they, they do certain things.

Will (01:16:54.382)

That's cool.

Will (01:17:07.491)

Oh, yeah.

Brian Funk (01:17:14.69)

been like, what could I say? I don't know what to say. And it's probably one of those things where you need to drive in the dark again, just start saying something or start doing something that is, it's like a hook in a song when I'm watching these videos. It's like the chorus comes back.

Will (01:17:17.702)

Yeah, yeah.

Will (01:17:23.521)

Hmm.

Will (01:17:28.845)

Yep.

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:17:33.116)

Dr. Bob on YouTube, he's a music producer. I had him on the podcast and he's great. He's got his like shtick where he dresses up like a surgeon. And he does like this thing at the end of his videos where he just posts, like after he's done telling you to join his mailing list and all that, he'll like put up like a still image in the last four or five seconds of the video. It's usually something current.

me staying just to see like what did he put up there is it like sometimes a callback to a joke he made yeah and it's so simple but it's really effective and that yeah that stuff inspires me like i really do like to see what people are doing to keep me interested

Will (01:18:05.521)

Really?

Will (01:18:13.026)

Mmm.

Will (01:18:22.318)

Mm.

Brian Funk (01:18:23.036)

And a lot of times it goes right under my nose and I don't even think about it. But it's when I'm in that mode of creating something where I notice, I'm like, oh, they do that every time and I love it.

Brian Funk (01:18:40.044)

People have like their little thing they do and you're like, oh yeah, Andrew Wong. He's like, hey, it's Andrew Wong. He gives you a high five and you're like, cool. Yeah. It's just, yeah, I get a lot out of that. Do you have any, anybody, anything? Anything?

Will (01:18:46.976)

Yeah.

Will (01:18:51.094)

Yeah, I wonder if...

Will (01:19:03.696)

I...

Will (01:19:08.01)

I've definitely, you can see in some of my videos where I've tried to like emulate something again, like in the early days when I didn't really, like, I didn't really know what my voice was. I've always watched, um, I'm a terrible cook, terrible cook, but I love cooking shows and I really want to learn and I really try to learn to cook new things. I just get overwhelmed. I get overwhelmed with all of the, um,

When a chef is in a kitchen, it seems so much like creating music. They're just, I'm over here and I put this on and I know that's timed and this is going and I'm doing this and I'm boiling that and then I need to do this thing. And when I'm there, it's so stressful. Like this has to be boiling at this time, but I'm keeping an eye on this and I need to chop these things. So I have to lay out the kitchen with all of the, all, all every ingredients that I'm going to use.

in the order that I'm going to use them. So it's just like the next thing. And I limit the amount of thinking, but I watch, um, cooking shows all the time. So Maddie Matheson and Binging with Babish were like two huge inspirations that I took, um, from, uh, for creating my channel. And there's a video that I have, I think it's called like cooking beats or it's like,

Will (01:20:33.102)

I can't even remember what it was. It was something kitchen beatmaking or something like this. One episode on the channel early, like first hundred videos. And it's essentially me in the pandemic, having binged all of Matty Matheson's content and then being like, I would love to do that for the, you know, a beatmaking channel. And I'm like shouting at the camera and I'm like, just grab serum and throw it in. And it's a four foot and trying to make it like a cookie show. It was terrible. Um,

I think I took that a lot and then Binging with Babish became more like, well, there's a lot of good ideas here of like kind of what inspired by became of like, let's see if we can, uh, for those that haven't watched it, it's like, you know, he'll try and make the real, you know, he'll, he'll take a trifle or a dish from the Simpsons and then try and make it in real life. And I think like that was such a.

huge thing for inspired by it should never be one piece of content. It should never be one genre. There's I'm not a professional on anything. And it will never always be like the genre channel, whatever that genre is. And I wanted it to just be what the title suggests is like inspired by it. This week, I'm inspired by this and the next week, I might not be. And he had a very methodical, calm

but still excited and honest approach to what he was doing. He is quite open about not being, you know, as much as everybody that watches his channel would disagree, but like not being a, like a, a trained chef. He's just like a fan of cooking and, and like kind of just going through things, learning it in the, in the show, he makes it wrong and shows you that he burned it and then makes it again. And I tried to do that. And

some of my episodes, especially the one that's like a bonobo one, and I show that I made the track five times and each time I get closer and closer. I think that's like really important. And then more recently, my buddy's gonna watch it. He probably won't watch this. He doesn't have time to listen to me more. But he if he did, he'd be shouting at me but there's this dude that I'm fascinated with and I hate that I'm forgetting the name but he's a British dude that just like I can't even sell you this channel and

Will (01:22:54.814)

with all my excitement and make you want to watch it because it's so boring. But it's this dude who has a lot of subscribers. So at least enough people think it's exciting. Who just makes coffee, British guy glasses, gray or blonde hair. I forget. And it's all one take. There's no cuts. It doesn't jump in and jump out. It doesn't like, there's nothing.

And he just sits on a blank table. Sometimes he has like a Aero press or a coffee maker. And he just talks about like, this is my favorite coffee. The reason I like it is he used to own a coffee shop. He now brews like his own beans and still grows his own beans and stuff like that. And I don't even like coffee that much. There's a coffee that I like. I drink that it's fine, but it's something about the calmness of the channel. There's something about his excitement.

I'll listen to anybody that's like excited about something. So it's the passion that he has for coffee, but there's also an element of like, he does this all one take they're like 20 minutes on edited videos and like, he just talks. So that's something that I've been trying to take into my channel. Just of the last couple of weeks, I got a teleprompter, um, because I really struggled talking to camera. Like we were saying earlier, my cutting room floor is like an hour and a half. Cause I just have to.

keep doing it. And I say the same thing 20, 30 times and chopping it up. Um, and I'd like to do just like, sometimes I feel like I'm doing those jump cuts that we spoke of because all the other YouTubers are doing the jump cuts. Um, you know, that hard crash in and that hard crash out and all of that kind of stuff. And, and I watch his channel and it's got however many subscribers, maybe a million. And I just think there's

people there that are willing to listen just because he's passionate about this thing. And there's no hard edits in the room. Doesn't look fascinating. The camera's not like it's good quality, but it's not amazing because it doesn't need to be doing anything too crazy. Um, I think that's probably the biggest influence I've taken as of late, but I think my, yeah, I think I'd take a lot of

Will (01:25:04.59)

little pointers and lessons from gaming channels and from cooking channels, especially just the cooking there. I think there's so many things that are like akin to what we do as music educators or musicians where I'm like, oh, that's really cool. I'd like to bring that into my channel and try and make it at least a little bit different from all the other beat making videos.

Brian Funk (01:25:27.916)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's good. What was the coffee guy? What was his channel called?

Will (01:25:33.15)

I don't know. I'll find it though. Why do you think, do you think you'd be into it?

Brian Funk (01:25:38.141)

Okay. Yeah, I'll put them in the show notes. I think I would be because what I like about that too is that it's not, there's not a lot of editing. I don't like doing the editing. So it's just interesting to find out how somebody can keep that interesting because in our world these days.

Will (01:25:40.738)

Okay.

Will (01:25:50.089)

Mm-hmm.

Will (01:25:56.742)

His name is James Hoffman, by the way.

Brian Funk (01:26:00.756)

James Hoffman. So I'll probably write James Hoffman coffee. I'll put it in the show notes if I find it. But yeah, like in a world that relies so much on flash and glitz and this and that to keep our attention, I am pretty fascinated by someone that can just do it without any of that. And there's gotta be something to learn from that.

Will (01:26:05.582)

to it.

Will (01:26:23.34)

Mmm.

Will (01:26:27.778)

For sure. For sure. I think, uh, that there's something about like, again, I don't know if this is again, have, you know, so many things seem connected to music or it's just because I'm a musician. It's all I've ever known. So it's probably, you know, and both things could be right. But I think like when I was very young, um, my music teacher told me like, you are an entertainer first and

a musician second. And I remember being like, Oh, that's crazy. The show isn't anything unless you can use, you said it yourself earlier. Like if you're performing, whether it's playing guitar, playing piano, just singing, playing drums, whatever. Um, you can do it in a half hearted fashion or a way that people know, like, you're just getting a check or you're over this or you tired or you don't want to be there.

But if you can entertain, even if that show is a little bit sloppy, um, it's a terrific show because people feed off of that. And I remember when I learned that and then I went into, um, teaching. And I remember being like really nervous and then thinking back to that music teacher of being like, you know, you're an entertainer first and like you said, you've got these, uh, you know, 15 year olds.

students that are captive for an hour or however long. I was a college lecturer. So sometimes they were, uh, one, two or three hour lectures. And these are like 16 to 18 year olds. So they, they already think they know the thing. And you know, there was, you ha in that session, I had to be like entertaining because when you're in hour two or hour three of the lecture, it's like every, everybody yourself included is running on fumes. So.

Um, I think likewise to what you said is like, I'm really astounded by a channel that is not only without animations and amazing lighting or perfect cameras and trickery and edits, and it's just someone talking to the camera. But I think I'm also amazed if someone isn't

Will (01:28:50.49)

loud and in your face and moving around.

Will (01:28:56.814)

Casey Neistat comes to mind. Casey Neistat is one of the OG YouTubers, terrific at what he does. And I think even if he didn't have.

any moving parts, like there was no cuts, there was no edits or anything like that. He would probably still have a successful channel because he's entertaining and he's got a lot to say and he's so good at talking to the camera. However, when you put someone like Casey Neistat next to James Hoffman, the coffee guy that we just spoke of, there's something that I get more excited about because he's so softly spoken and he's so quiet, but somehow

that passion still comes through and you're still just as excited about whatever topic he's speaking on. And I'm like, Oh, there's something there that's like really interested that I wish I could harness or that I would try to harness, you know? Um, yeah, I forget if you asked the question there, buddy, but it's, yeah, that, that stuff like fascinates me.

Brian Funk (01:30:00.668)

Hmm. Yeah. And it shows, I guess that it's not just high energy or flash or a certain type of personality. There's something else to pick up on. Yeah. It's mysterious, right? This like,

Will (01:30:12.021)

Mm.

Will (01:30:17.23)

Exactly, it's mysterious. That's the only way to describe it.

Brian Funk (01:30:21.56)

And I think again, like you just sort of have to try things out. It's like that musically too. Um, you kind of like to see if a technique works, you got to see if doing this thing or that thing actually works for you. Does it get you a result, some sort of emotional impact or something?

Will (01:30:30.67)

Mm-hmm.

Will (01:30:44.786)

Yeah, yeah, agreed.

Brian Funk (01:30:49.728)

Weird, right? It's so fun that all this stuff is just... there's no final boss, you know? There's no end to it. There's no... you don't ever win. You know, you have victories, I guess, but... every time you have to start again. Every time you have to figure out all these problems that always come up every single time.

Will (01:31:17.326)

Hmm. It's so funny. You say that there's no final boss is like such a, um, it's such a perfect thing to say not only in this conversation that we're having, and we've kind of mentioned video games and stuff like that, but also in life for everybody listening and also where I'm at in life. And it also reminds me it's like, you just fourfold. Um, it reminds me of something that my mom told me.

It's probably my youngest memory of my mum giving me advice. And she still says it weekly, monthly to me to this day. And it was, I used to play, I think the first game I ever played was Sonic the Hedgehog on.

The Sega Saturn? I don't know if it was the Mega Drive out by you, because I know it went under different names in Europe, but...

Brian Funk (01:32:12.612)

It was the Genesis and the Mega Drive for the same system. Uh, we had Genesis.

Will (01:32:16.866)

That was it. That was it. Okay. Right. So I was on the mega drive and, um, yeah, I was playing Sonic and I was obsessed dude. And I would not want to go to bed because obviously back then no saves, right? No cartridge, nothing in PlayStation. I come out. So it was like this hard and it's like, I'm doing that like

Brian Funk (01:32:36.429)

Mm-hmm. Oh yeah. That game is hard.

Will (01:32:42.386)

stomp strop that kids do. I'm looking up in there. This is the farthest I've ever got. You know, like I just going insane. And my mom was like, you try again tomorrow. And I remember, you know, like, sort of screaming, throwing my dummy out the pram, figuratively and literally, you know, and you know, being, I won't be able to get this far again. And my mom was like, you will, right?

Brian Funk (01:32:49.611)

Alright.

Will (01:33:08.202)

Anyway, next day, next week, whatever, playing the game. And I got a little bit further from my mum being like, see, I told you, get it. You just got to keep, keep at it. Um, never completed the game. So even in that sense, no final boss. Um, but like, I remember years going by and my mum time and time again, to this day, if I get stuck on anything and now it's almost like a self-sooth thing that I just hear her voice saying it, but like, um,

She always says it's just like Sonic the Hedgehog. Like anything is just like, you know, cool. The camera died. Got to buy a new one. Boiler's got a problem. Got to get it repaired. Um, you know, a relationship has gone down the pan. You you're dating again. You're alone. You're moving. How, like whatever it is, it's just like Sonic. You just got to try again tomorrow and just keep trying and you'll get further ahead.

And that's like literally all it's about. And it's just what you said there about like there being no final bosses. It was just like, took me back to that memory. It sounds like you're quite, at least from this, you know, we've been chatting for 90 minutes or whatever. I feel like games played a large part of your life. Is that right or no? Is it just been, we've mentioned it a lot.

Brian Funk (01:34:32.804)

No, I played more video games as a kid than I would probably care to admit. You know, should have been outside more maybe. Um, yeah, I grew up like, got like a Nintendo when I was young. Uh, and yeah, I loved those worlds. I was really into like comics and that kind of stuff, superheroes too. So it all, I think played in together. Um.

Will (01:34:38.37)

Yeah.

Will (01:34:46.574)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (01:35:00.876)

And yeah, I guess, you know, I got outside too. I was like playing and out of the house as well. But yeah, there were definitely certain periods of my time. I don't do it as much anymore. I don't even remember the last game I played, what it was. And it's been a long time.

Will (01:35:16.554)

Mmm.

Brian Funk (01:35:22.588)

But I'm involved in the world still a lot. I have buddies that are really deep in video game land and do expos and all these things. So I'm around it a lot and...

Will (01:35:30.222)

Sure. Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:35:35.332)

And I, it's a nostalgia thing too. Like I watch a lot of it on YouTube. It's kind of funny that that's like the thing that if I'm not watching something music related, I'm probably putting on something video game related. And I exercise to it, you know, and it's just the thing that.

it just takes me back, I guess, you know? I love the sounds especially, you know? But I think that there were a lot of lessons that there's just kind of like a very strict.

Will (01:35:57.089)

Hmm

Brian Funk (01:36:16.116)

and kind of impersonal cruelness to video games, right? Like if you, like these things like apply to life so much, like you die in Sonic the Hedgehog, the game's not mad at you. You just, now you play again. Same thing, just try again. You get your 100 rings in Sonic the Hedgehog, you get your free life. You get 99, you get nothing.

Will (01:36:32.354)

so

Brian Funk (01:36:40.624)

So you have to get 100. You have to meet this requirement to move ahead. You gotta solve this puzzle. And I don't know. I think it probably shaped me in some ways. I like the impersonal harshness of it. I tried to think about that actually with school, with teaching, where if...

Will (01:36:40.639)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:37:07.132)

there's a consequence or a penalty in school, like you gotta have rules and stuff. It's impersonal. It's like, yeah, you know, I'm not mad at you, but that's, you know, this is what you gotta get to. This is what you gotta achieve. This is the expectation. Um, try tomorrow. Keep going. I'll help you, but, uh, you know, you still have to get through it and

Will (01:37:14.158)

Hmm.

Will (01:37:25.431)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (01:37:32.284)

Just like, you know, Sonic the Hedgehog isn't angry with you after you died 27 times. You know, it just lets you go again.

Will (01:37:41.374)

Yeah. Oh dude, that's what I miss about teaching. It was the, I haven't done it in, you know, four, you know, coming up four years now. And, uh, that whole, like, I remember I used to have students, every lesson they would show up 30 minutes late, you know, some, some were worse, some were better. And then they, the day that they showed up earlier,

five minutes late, 10 minutes late, something like that. They'd go, I'm here. And you'd be like, dude, you're still late. And they're like, yeah, but I'm earlier than I was before. And it's that thing of like, dude, I'm not gonna applaud you for doing the thing that you're almost supposed to do. Just do the thing you're supposed to do. Like, you know, there's 50 other kids here that are like, just, they were here on time or they were here early and no one.

is, you know, the people that are on time and not better than the people that are early and the people that are early don't deserve more attention than anybody else. It's like you just, the door opens and everybody comes in on time. And I remess, I miss having that rapport with students. I used to really get on with the, not necessarily like really bad kids, but just the cheeky, the cheeky guys.

that would like kind of bend the rules or just kind of, um, you know, play the system a little bit, but they would, they, they were just, um, I was describing like, you know, like just the education wasn't really like cut out for them because it was so, at least in the UK, like so cookie cutter that you have to be this type of person. And they were studying music. So there, there really should be no, yeah, it's not, you know, there's no, there's no cookie cutter. This is the way to learn.

Brian Funk (01:39:28.36)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, definitely not for everybody. Yeah.

Will (01:39:36.786)

And, and those people that would kind of give you that eye where they were like, I know you're just, you know, if there was a, we have off-stead in the UK, right? When a particular time of year, when the managers roll through and, um, and, and normally some, um, external like verifiers come in and they make sure that everybody's teaching as they should be. The problem with that is

your managers will tell you how you should be teaching just for that one day. So everybody teaches in a wildly different way than what they would normally do. And it's normally to the detriment of the students because you're trying to put on this show, you know, and there'll be some students that would be like, I know what you're doing, Will. And I'm going to, I'm going to play along, but just, you know, and I always, I enjoyed that rapport. And I think that's kind of like missing from, you know, my, my life online.

Brian Funk (01:40:14.016)

Right, the show.

Brian Funk (01:40:25.15)

Heh. Yeah.

Will (01:40:34.722)

is the discord is there and I'm in so many people's, um, group chats or DMS or, or just the forum itself and the same with the patron and the same with the YouTube comments are trying to reply to everybody, but there's just like, you can't build the same rapport with people. So dude, I'm a little bit envious that you're still, you're still like on the front lines. That's super cool, man.

Brian Funk (01:40:59.6)

Well, it's the same thing that would drive you crazy too. I know what you're saying and it's fun. And I can smile at it, but it is, it's also the thing where you're like, all right, come on, you know?

Will (01:41:02.57)

Oh for sure. Ha ha ha.

Brian Funk (01:41:19.944)

I actually had one of those today where I got watched by one of the administrators. And I've gotten to the point with that stuff where I just really do believe I'm doing what I think is the best every day. I really am invested in my students doing well. That's what I want. That's... And if...

I don't have to, I guess, necessarily. I can go through the routines, but it's... If I don't do that, then it doesn't mean anything, then I'm wasting my time.

So I do want it to matter. So I do, I don't get as like worried about it. I don't, it's not like a show anymore. Like it definitely was when I first started, it was like, okay, I'm going to pull out all the stops today. And, and now it's kind of like, you're going to get whatever I was going to do. So this is what I was going to do. Here it is. Um,

Will (01:42:18.346)

Mm.

Brian Funk (01:42:24.576)

And it is funny though, there are certain people, like they know what's going on and they kind of have that like look in there and they might even like play with you a little that day, you know, just for the fun of it. But, um, you know, generally, generally they do cooperate. They get it. They're like, okay, you know, it's funny how, um, they, they sort of see you like more on their side in those moments.

Will (01:42:36.046)

Test the boundaries, yeah.

Brian Funk (01:42:50.356)

And, uh, but that's like a rapport thing that if you, if you are honestly caring for them, even if it means sometimes you got to come down hard on them, um, they know that they know the difference between if I'm just trying to be like, I'm the boss, so you got to do what I have to say compared to like, this is for you.

Will (01:43:17.442)

Mm.

Brian Funk (01:43:18.524)

there's a difference and yeah, it's nice when you get that. And I actually do prefer those types of students. And I don't know, I won't say prefer, but like I don't really want to teach the like.

the really good honors and advanced placement classes. It's like more of the game is happening more, you know? We're here to get like good grades and we're here to, I don't know. Then like the numbers become important.

Will (01:43:42.503)

Yeah.

Will (01:43:53.518)

Sure.

Brian Funk (01:43:54.592)

It's like the stupidest thing that we get great, especially if you're teaching music. Like you're going to give someone a grade. Why? I mean, a lot of the writing that I teach, it's like, like out of a hundred, you got a ninety-four. Like it feels like you're just making this up. And you kind of are. You know, you have your things that you measure against, but it's kind of nonsense. And to get...

Will (01:44:01.25)

It's very strange.

Will (01:44:14.432)

Yep.

Will (01:44:20.138)

It really is, yeah.

Brian Funk (01:44:21.236)

to then like have discussions about why it's what it is. It just, it's like, this isn't the point. It's not why we're doing this. I do that, I see that sometimes teaching with online, Berkeley online I teach and there are people there that just wanna like make good music and wanna develop and that's the best. And then there's others that you get the sense that they're trying to get their degree.

Will (01:44:27.982)

Mmm.

Will (01:44:48.421)

Mmm.

Brian Funk (01:44:48.432)

And it's like, great, like have your degree, like who cares? You know, what good is that doing you? Education is kind of weird like that because the education is sometimes the least important part. It's what do I get? What is my paper? Where's my credential? And especially in music, it's...

Will (01:44:56.01)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:45:15.104)

so unimportant. I'm teaching the class, I don't have that degree myself. So it's like the perfect irony, like I didn't get your degree and I'm teaching you. So, you know, think about that. It doesn't, it can be helpful in certain situations, I guess. It gets you in the door. And if you're going to be a doctor, like I would prefer you have that degree, that you went through that stuff before you cut me open.

Will (01:45:18.807)

Yeah.

Will (01:45:24.323)

Hmm.

Will (01:45:39.223)

Sure.

Brian Funk (01:45:45.448)

But in like the arts, it's kind of like, if that's what you're doing it for, it's like, come on, like do something else that's a little more safe and you'll get your money or whatever it is you're doing this for. Cause it's all about like the hustle and the drive and the desire.

Will (01:46:08.114)

It was a weird thing in the teaching in the UK was

Will (01:46:15.758)

was odd because the closer I got to like

start in this new chapter, the more I would like kind of, um, like fight with kind of the, the management and the way the course was structured and things. And, and I think you hit the nail on the head there of like marking people out of a hundred. I love the world that I exist in now where I'm trying to use a good example. I can't really think of one, but like.

I will present something in Ableton or generalistically in music and go like, if you click this button and do this, then you get this. And someone else is like, I use this tool and it's like one less click. And then I get to reply in a comment and be like, dude, that's awesome. Either I didn't know that or like, cool, like good, like that's right as well. I didn't showcase it, but it's cool that it works for you.

And I can also come back in the videos and change my answer, give a new take on things, I can shout people out and be like, this person introduced this to me. And I do quite like to be, uh, like proven wrong or like shown alternatives. And it's quite hard to do, especially when you are great in like college music. Um, because the

past merit distinction criteria were kind of

Will (01:47:54.882)

airy fairy like you um one of the i remember one of the criteria for performance was like

It was kind of like stage presence or how you command yourself. And, um, another, another distinction criteria was like mastery of the process. So, you know, you would mark a student with a grade and I could mark someone with a distinction, but a manager that overlooks or a verifier that overlooks that grade can go, well, no, they got a pass and that person doesn't do music. So your argument is, well, the reason they showed mastery of the process was X, even though that they're playing.

style was this, you know, like, um, if maybe one of my managers watched a student do a performance of like, smells like teen spirit, it was really grungy and there was lots of shouting and the chords didn't sound that great. But in their written work of how they explained what their performance was going to be, it's like mastery of the process. But my managers would be like, it doesn't sound good. You know, it doesn't sound like this other person that you gave a pass or a merit. Um,

And then the opposite would be like, if I gave someone a pass, maybe a parent coming in, or again, it could be someone above me saying like, no, this was distinction criteria, a content or work or whatever, it's quite hard to sometimes mark work because you have to be very definitive once you've put that grade in. And then you have to stand by it. And I really like to be proven wrong and go, you know what, you know, like I, yeah, I'd never thought of that. And.

That's cool. Let me change that. And you don't, you don't get to like, often unless you're, you know, like kind of making sure no one sees that you've changed something, like, you know, you don't, you don't in teaching, you don't very often get to like, kind of fight a good, honest fight, um, at least from my experience, you know, in terms of, if somebody presented a, a well-rounded argument as to why they got a certain grade or whatever, they can't really.

Will (01:50:04.01)

change your mind because you're stuck in the confines of like the paperwork. Whereas in the online space, you can constantly go, yeah, I retract my opinion about this. I was wrong about that. You've got a good idea. I'm going to make it be known that you were the person that I got this idea from.

Will (01:50:23.73)

Yes, it's interesting. I've kind of, uh, just in saying that, like you, you said, like, it's the same thing that drives you crazy. And, uh, I hear that. And now what I'm saying is like, there's so much of it that I love, but there's so much of it that I, that I disliked.

Brian Funk (01:50:36.437)

You don't miss it anymore. Yeah. It's everything. Everything's like that, I guess. Yeah, it's... I think if we all sat down and kind of like wiped our minds of... If we weren't so entrenched in the systems that we grew up in that are still going on in education, nothing's really changed that much.

If we could wipe that clean and we had to start it over, it would look so different. And so many of the things that are just, we take for granted, that's how you teach. Of course you have a grade. We'd probably be like, oh, great. What are you talking about? Get rid of that. Like, that's nonsense. Like you're going to have an old person stand in front of these kids sitting in the seats. That's stupid. Get rid of that. Like there's so many things that would just be.

Will (01:51:16.238)

Sure, yeah.

Will (01:51:25.244)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (01:51:29.276)

We'd just be like, no, no way, what are we doing? Yeah, it's tough. It's, there's, the nice thing though is that you get a chance every day to be a role model. Whether you know it or not, you are. And like, it's so funny, cause like there's things I say in class that just come out of my mouth, spur of the moment that stick with people.

Will (01:51:30.79)

Arbitrary, yeah.

Brian Funk (01:51:58.556)

And things that I think are really important that no one remembers. But then they'll ask me like, how's your dog Audra? You know, my dog's name, he got every question on the story wrong or this topic. But, and, but then you start to realize like, you know what, like there was a human connection happening. That's important for a young person who's trying to find their way in the world where they feel weird and awkward.

Will (01:52:07.138)

Shoo!

Will (01:52:14.107)

Yeah.

Will (01:52:22.008)

Mm.

Brian Funk (01:52:28.47)

connecting with peers and hey, like just to learn that there's people you can relate to and that you can seek out for help. I mean, even that is just like really important. But

Will (01:52:42.506)

Absolutely.

Brian Funk (01:52:46.16)

It's so intangible, like you can't quantify that. There's no data that we can show for that stuff. So it gets lost in all the stuff that we can produce data for.

Will (01:52:52.014)

Hmm

Will (01:53:03.586)

Do you have, um, on the little bit of a tangent, but just cause it just, I'm just curious as to what I'd already left teaching when I went into YouTube and whatever in yours, you still active in the classroom or whatever. Do you, do you have any students that have

Brian Funk (01:53:03.717)

Bit of a shame. I don't know.

Will (01:53:24.074)

tuned into the channel, listened to the podcast, anything like that, where they've like passed comment on it. Do they think it's cool? Do they make fun of you? Like what, what's the deal?

Brian Funk (01:53:36.188)

Yeah, I used to try to keep these worlds separate. Like, I didn't see the connection and I didn't see how letting people know that I taught would help my rock and roll career. And I didn't know how my rock and roll career, they got that rock and roll teacher, you know. They just seemed like they were at odds. So I kept them really separate. And it...

Will (01:53:49.806)

That's all.

Brian Funk (01:54:05.12)

Inevitably though, I got found out. You know, like they would just discover you. You know, I don't know. They go home, they Google their teachers or something. But once I brought it together and like show it like, yeah, this is this is I'm a person. This is what I do.

Will (01:54:07.854)

So...

Will (01:54:14.315)

You're right.

Brian Funk (01:54:25.984)

And even with music, you know, started to embrace the things I was learning through teaching. It all made sense all of a sudden. Um, yeah, you get that sometimes. And I think sometimes they think they've like found you out. Um, and it kind of depends on the approach. Sometimes I pretend like, like I saw you on YouTube. I was like, me tube. You know, I pretend like I don't know what it is or something. What's meet me tube. No YouTube. Me tube.

Will (01:54:49.218)

Hehehe

Brian Funk (01:54:55.658)

like Abed and Costello thing starts happening. But then like others, you know, are more, they're inquisitive sometimes. And it's, I think it's nice to show them too, that there's dimensions to people and that you don't have to be like the one thing that's your job. And then sometimes you find kids that are into music and they connect with that too. So it's...

Will (01:54:57.579)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:55:24.304)

It's a good thing after all, despite resisting it for like the first many years of my career. I think it's been a good thing. Just, just to show like what's possible.

You know, I did a book that I put out last year and it was, I liked showing them like, hey, if you just do something long enough, you keep showing up, you can make something. I just showed them my record too. And like, this happened because no one gave me permission. I just kept showing up and kept doing it. And like, that's how you do things. Like, whatever you want. Just keep going.

Will (01:56:06.615)

Mmm.

Brian Funk (01:56:11.702)

And because so many people when they're 14 years old think like I could never do this. I'm not that kind of person It's like dude. You're 14 like You don't even know who you are yet Yeah, well 40 I guess I can understand a little more because you're you've been around longer and then you realize I'm not Artistic which I still don't agree with but to the side you're not

Will (01:56:21.074)

Some people think that when they're 40.

Will (01:56:34.35)

Sure.

Brian Funk (01:56:39.592)

athletic, artistic, or whatever it is at that age is silly. But we all do it. I did it too. I'm gonna have the same way, but I like being able to show them. That's not true. If you did it for the next four years, you'd be doing it for four years, which is a long time to be doing anything.

Will (01:56:44.13)

Hmm. Yeah, I agree.

Will (01:56:53.707)

Mm.

Will (01:57:02.39)

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. On the grand scheme. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Brian Funk (01:57:02.792)

But it's also like no time at all. It's also nothing. So, yeah. So in no time at all, you could be, you know, pretty experienced, you know, whatever you want to take up.

Will (01:57:20.301)

Mm.

Brian Funk (01:57:20.884)

Those are the things I like. I don't get as jazzed about teaching grammar. That's where I have to pretend. Probably the same thing with music. Yeah. Yeah, there's things that...

Will (01:57:30.318)

It's more about the human experience.

Brian Funk (01:57:40.72)

you know, just showing people new things. That's like when you teach music too, same thing. It's exciting when you see them, oh my God, I didn't know I could do that. And then like now they're making a new beat and you're like, yeah, isn't that fun? Like you remember how exciting it was when you discovered it. And then a lot of times.

Will (01:57:53.57)

So, yeah.

Brian Funk (01:58:00.948)

A lot of times in my classes with music, the question gets asked and I'm like, oh yeah, yeah. And then we start playing with it and I'm like, oh, I gotta do that again myself. I don't make enough use to this technique.

Will (01:58:12.75)

Sure, yeah.

Brian Funk (01:58:17.812)

cool stuff. So listen, I've kept you a long time. Thank you for being so generous with your time and going on this kind of wide ranging rambling conversation, but it was a lot of fun. There's...

Will (01:58:19.423)

Absolutely, yeah.

Will (01:58:23.699)

I appreciate it.

No worries.

Will (01:58:34.242)

This is so much fun. It's a weird thing to do as the last part of my day because it's like, it's like midnight now, so I'm just gonna, I've had, we've talked, set the world to rights and we've talked about all of these high concepts ideas and then I'll just be in bed and be like, that was a good podcast and then just go to sleep. It's a very strange nighttime routine that you've set here, but I enjoyed it. Nonetheless. Thanks so much, buddy.

Brian Funk (01:58:40.813)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:58:44.281)

Oh wow.

Brian Funk (01:58:59.989)

Okay. Cool. Yeah. I had a great time. So we can send people to willhattenmusic.com. I think that's kind of like a hub where they can find your music and find your YouTube. And the YouTube is, is it just a at willhatten. There's two T's in there. So we'll put all that in the show notes.

Will (01:59:20.367)

It is indeed, yeah that's correct.

Brian Funk (01:59:24.336)

and your patreons, it's patreon slash the Wilhatton or the Wilhatton.

Will (01:59:29.634)

Yeah, I really messed up with all of the URLs in the early days. It should have been Wilhatton or Hush Child or the Wilhatton, but I didn't get any of them the same. So it's, I'd feel like yeah, wilhattonmusic.com is probably the best place to find everything else. Otherwise you'll be there all day. You'll be like a professional coder trying to get in the back doors of all the places that I am.

Brian Funk (01:59:55.504)

Well, I found it actually. I was Googling some of this stuff earlier just to get them all ready and they come up. But they'll be in the show notes so people can go right to the show notes. Thank you. Thank you to you the listener. Have yourselves a great day and see you next time. You'll be glad you did.

Will (02:00:03.439)

we did it thank you so much man

Will (02:00:15.498)

Wait, wait, what was the thing that you're...

Will (02:00:20.598)

We were the same! You'll be glad you did. That's the perfect end.

Brian Funk (02:00:25.908)

There you go.

That was great, man. Very nice. We did one.

Will (02:00:30.734)

Oh dude, that was such a blast. Thank you so much.

Brian Funk (02:00:35.548)

Yeah, it was really cool talking to you, man.

podcastBrian Funkwill hatton, inspired by, youtube, music production podcast